Both India and Ukraine suffered from artificial famines imposed on them by British and Russian colonial authorities, respectively. In both cases, colonialists who committed mass crimes against the indigenous populations were considered “heroes” in their imperial metropoles.
Yet there were also differences in how the relations between the colonial master and the colonized were organized. It is time to analyze both the similarities and differences of these cases and to map a more comprehensive picture of the imperialisms and colonialisms of the past and present.
The Explaining Ukraine podcast invites you to a conversation at the PEN Ukraine / UkraineWorld event “Learning more about each other: Indian authors in Ukraine.” The conversation took place in Kyiv, at PEN Ukraine’s headquarters, on April 17th, 2024.
Guests:
Host: Volodymyr Yermolenko, Ukrainian philosopher, chief editor of UkraineWorld, and president of PEN Ukraine
British colonizers used division — caste, class, religion — to rule India. The same kind of exploitation happened in Ukraine with the Russian empire. - Tehnaz J. Dastoor
Tehnaz J. Dastoor compares the forced famine in Bengal during British rule to the Holodomor in Ukraine, discussing how colonizers manipulated food sources to control populations:
In Bengal, the British took all our grain. I can very well relate to what happened here with grain being taken away and people starving... This was done to us too.
Bishan Samaddar on similarities in colonial systems:
Under the rule of the Communist Party of India, he observed what he calls an "obsession with sameness" much like Ukrainians experienced during the USSR.
There is a parallel between communist rule in India and Soviet rule, perhaps. We come from a state within India that had a rule by the Communist Party of India for 35 years. Although being elected democratically, they ignored crucial differences like religion, caste, and others in the name of uniformity.
Bishan Samaddar on differences in colonial systems:
The British colonial narrative was clear: "We are white supremacists bringing knowledge and prosperity to lift you from misery, but you will never be one of us, of course" Their goal was to exploit as much as possible. We were forced to become an agricultural country.
In India, colonial figures like Churchill are still revered, but for us, they caused immense suffering... This is why Ukrainians struggle with Russian figures like Lenin and Pushkin, who carry imperialist legacies. - Bishan Samaddar
Once the children are lifted and placed in Russia, they lose their empathy and connection to Ukraine. This is why they do it — to break that bond, the next generation will not be the same. - Tehnaz J. Dastoor
When children don't have a sense of their future being something bright, it's very traumatic. They need outlets to express their sorrow, happiness, and hopes.
Children need trauma counseling. The long-term effects of unresolved trauma will shape how they see themselves and their future, and it's critical for the next generation. - Tehnaz J. Dastoor
The challenge of Ukraine being seen as aligned with Western imperialism, particularly in regions like India, Latin America, and Africa, where suspicion of Western powers runs high.
Instead of measuring who was the worst empire, we need to think about the structural parallels. There is so much similarity in the experience of India and Ukraine. - Bishan Samaddar
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This episode has been made with the support of the Ukrainian Institute. This is a recording of a conversation done by PEN Ukraine and UkraineWorld within a project In Solidarity with Ukraine. The full version of this episode (with Q&A section) is available for UkraineWorld patrons at: https://www.patreon.com/ukraineworld
