Niall Ferguson on Empires, Networks, and Ukraine

Are all empires equally bad? If some were better than others, what criteria can we use to make such judgments? Why must we study networks, not only hierarchies, to understand our past, present, and future? What happens to societies in times of catastrophe, and who has the best chances of survival? And finally — why is Ukraine so important for the world today?

• Host: Volodymyr Yermolenko, a Ukrainian philosopher, editor-in-chief of UkraineWorld, and president of PEN Ukraine.
• Guest: Niall Ferguson — a renowned British-American historian and author of numerous books, including "Empire", "The Square and the Tower", "The War of the World", "Doom", and others.

Ferguson is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. We had this conversation during the Yalta European Strategy Forum in Kyiv in September 2025.

Thinking in Dark Times is a podcast of reflection from Ukraine. We try to see the light through — and despite — the current darkness.

This episode was made possible thanks to the support of Politeia, a Ukrainian NGO dedicated to preparing a new generation of change-makers in Ukraine.

UkraineWorld is an English-language media about Ukraine run by Internews Ukraine

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